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MP3 DOWNLOADING: Spelling The End for Hard Dance Music
Reported by Olly Perris
/
Submitted 07-09-04 22:17
Hard Dance clubbers, fans, DJ's, producers and followers, this is your wake-up call. The music which we dance to, know and love so well is going into serious decline; at the rate it is disappearing now, by this time next year, we will have hardly any hard dance music left to dance to. And why is this happening? Because people would rather download music for free than buy it, completely oblivious to the fact that their actions are having a devastating effect on our scene as we know it now.
We have all done it in the past, myself included. No one person is immune to it. We hear a great song, we instantly want a copy of it, and due to modern file sharing systems, we can get a copy of it for free, and without time and effort to hunt down a copy. Great! No, actually, it is not great at all. With the recent news that huge hard dance distributors Alphamagic and Infectious have folded due to reporting abysmal record sales, and other news that certain major labels have had to fire staff because they are losing money on record sales, it is apparant that the free MP3 culture is killing our scene as we know it. When people begin to lose their jobs, their source of income for their families, something is going terribly wrong, and when producers decide that they cannot afford to produce music any longer, they will simply cease to do so. Face facts folks, MP3 downloading is destroying our scene, and this article aims to dispell common myths associated with the MP3 culture, and hopefully will educate you that what you are doing is morally wrong, and above all, destroying our scene.
Part 1: The Myths of MP3 Downloads
MYTH #1: "Downloading music is OK, because the artists in question must sell thousands of units, and the labels can surely afford it."
FACT: This is completely wrong. The major label's record sales are starting to really hurt. A year ago, the average major hard dance release would sell around 2,000-2,500 copies, with the lesser labels perhaps doing 1,500 per release on average. Nowadays, the major labels are lucky to shift 1,500 per release in the first week. The huge decline in record sales is exactly directly proportional to the amount of MP3's downloaded by people on the increasing number of broadband internet connections, who then do not proceed to buy the hard copies afterwards. Alphamagic, one of the largest and most prolific hard dance distributors, recently folded due to extremely poor sales performance, perhaps partly through lack of quality but also due to the fact that even though their tracks were distributed frequently through major chain stores such as HMV & Virgin, their sales figures have been in frequent decline for a long time, due to the effects of MP3 downloading. Other major labels have had to lay off staff, hold back on releases, press fewer copies of records and have even rejected big records because they simply cannot afford to sign them. When people start to lose their jobs and their source of income due to MP3's, then we have an extremely huge problem which MUST be stopped. Imagine if you lost your job because of a circumstance which you could not control, for example a rival company selling a product identical to yours for free, but still somehow benefitting. This is precisely what MP3 downloading is doing to the hard dance scene as we know it.
MYTH #2: "It's ok to download MP3's as I will purchase a hard copy of the track once I have downloaded it".
FACT: This certainly has good intentions but in practise is rarely achieved, and in the cases which I have looked at in writing this article, people buy as few as 10% of the tracks they actually download.
MYTH #3: "I can download MP3's to play out in my gigs, to myself and to my friends, so surely for personal use this should be OK?".
FACT: Certainly playing a new track off CD will make you look good, and it may inspire others to purchase the song in question, but the scenario is still morally wrong and illegal. Not only are you breaking every copyright and public performance rule in the book by playing out an MP3, you have also neglected to recognize that if you keep doing this, you are still causing one less sale, and when sales are at an all time low, every single unit sale counts.
MYTH #4: "But a lot of released music is crap anyway, why should I pay good money for it?".
FACT: This is the exact idiocy and naivety which has caused our hard dance scene to be in the terrible state it is now. If you think a track is crap, fair enough, but another person may think it's absolutely amazing, and want to get more music from the producer in question. Thinking you can get something for free just because you don't like it, is an absolutely ridiculous excuse. It's not like we can just stroll into a supermarket, pick up something off the shelf and walk out with it even if we don't like it, purely because it's free. Metaphorically speaking, when you download an MP3, you are stealing a record from a record shop and everyone will lose out in the long run.
But, you might say, it isn't as bad as I make it out to be. There must be countless other factors contributing to poor sales figures, and there are. There are counter arguments which exist, although I personally believe these to be not as important as MP3 downloading. Here are a few which people use to suggest that MP3 downloading isn't as bad as people make it out to be, with my own argument against these.
Part 2: The Counter Arguments
"Poor sales are due to bad A&R decisions at the record labels, rather than to MP3 downloads. Poor releases mean poor sales, surely?"
In theory, yes this is true. Recently, the darker, harder edge of hard house has flooded the market, and alongside the major labels, smaller ones have emerged and are releasing tracks which may not be as good and consequently sales suffer. But as I said earlier, it's my belief that this subjectivity of what is one man's "good" and another's "bad" is leading to people to download a tune purely because it's free rather than purchase it. Whilst obviously this does not justify a poor tune selling badly, during a particular dry spell of tunes, people will get into a habit of downloading tracks which therefore becomes hard to break. So when the next "Revolution" comes along, and all the hype builds on it as the tune which is going to change the music scene, people are going to want to download it before release as soon as possible and once they have done this and got bored of it, the record will come out, and the person will not then buy the vinyl. In a sense, this is a poor A&R decision to hold back release of the record, which in turn leads to greater downloads. Therefore due to the subjectivity involved, it is not enough to merely state that poor A&Ring leads to worser sales, for the reasons aforementioned.
"Poor sales are due to the big name DJ's playing tunes from exclusive CDR's months in advance of their release. When the record finally comes out, the buzz is gone and no-one will buy it."
Again this is certainly a viable point, and is one of the reasons why many major anthems are not selling. But this particular point, in my opinion, has direct links to the rise of CDJing. CDJing has evolved like no other technology has, with many big name DJ's such as Sasha now publically disbanding their vinyl and opting instead to play full sets from CD alone.
There is, however, one very bad circumstance to this. Big name DJ's, to use Paul Glazby and BK as an example, will receive tracks straight from producers to play from CDR at their gigs. They build a buzz on a track by publically charting the tracks in magazines and on websites. People will then read these charts and will want to get their hands on a copy of the track as soon as possible, usually no matter what medium. For example, BK receives a tune from Producer X entitled "The Anthem". BK will chart this in Mixmag and on Harderfaster, and suddenly the buzz on "The Anthem" becomes very large indeed. When the record label finally releases limited numbers of promos to shops, the lucky ones with a vinyl copy will copy the track to their computer, in order to receive the accolade of being the first person to upload the MP3 onto the internet (as is the way with how many MP3's find their way online). As this MP3 slowly appears on the p2p programs before "The Anthem" is released, people will download the track so that they too can chart it on Harderfaster, Tidy.com etc, and put the immortal (CDR) after it on their chart. Unlike BK, who legally received the track from Producer X, the copycats have simply downloaded a track, robbing the record label and producer of a sale in the process. Therefore, the buzz on the record is gone because a lot of the people who would definately purchase "The Anthem" if the MP3 wasn't available haven't done, and have instead opted to download it, having an extremely adverse effect on record sales.
"There is no longer a DJ explosion, which means that less people are buying records. There has been a lack of interest in places like Ibiza this year, whilst ticket sales for rock festivals such as Glastonbury are at record rates."
On the contrary to this, I feel that there is no longer a vinyl DJing explosion. The rise of CDJing has become so great that many people are investing in Pioneer CDJ's rather than a set of decks these days. This isn't the time and place to get into the CDJing vs Vinyl debate, but one thing is for certain, and that is that far more material is available on 12" rather than CD/legal MP3 at the moment. Therefore the material for people to play on their CD decks has to come from one place and one place only, the internet. Although there has been a distinct poorer turnout in Ibiza this year and consequently interest in dance music and thus DJing is down, this does not account for existing DJs and their lack of purchasing vinyl. Through the recent DJ explosion since dance music became ultra mainstream in 1999, record sales have continued to drop and have never reached the peak of what they were pre-MP3. Even in the last year, on average sales of releases from the major labels have dropped, even as far as 1,000 on average in some extreme cases. It is therefore, in my opinion, not enough to simply say that the buzz has gone, because those that were affected by the "buzz" over the last 4 years are still not purchasing records, and as sales have not increased since 1999 during any year, the only viable explanation for this is that people are getting their music from other mediums, and the largest of these are MP3's.
Part 3: Conclusions
I have here tried to offer my interpretation of the effects of MP3 downloading on the hard dance scene. I feel that this is the one single thing which is bringing down sales in our scene, and I have presented my ideas why. Obviously this topic is open to extreme debate, but I hope this has awakened your attitudes towards MP3 downloading, and that you will think twice before downloading the next big hard dance anthem, and instead doing the producers and the record label justice by purchasing it instead.
To close this article, I will use a quote from Ed Real in a recent interview for 4clubbers.net.
Thank you for reading!! 
Ed Real:
"Download a p2p file and you are ripping off the person who made that track. Wanna rip off Timberlake? Fine ‘cos the muppet can afford it… Rip of Nick Sentience, Plump DJ’s, Dave Clarke, Mark Knight, Ponder & HB, Moving Fusion and you are putting another nail in the coffin of dance music. Dance producers continue to make music cos they can afford to – they often break even and perhaps earn a little money to invest in new equipment – at the moment 12” sales are down 50% from last year. That’s because people are ripping musicians off.
Many people who download dance music on p2p are young budding DJ’s and producers themselves – wise up dickheads and realise that if you continue, your favourite producers who you look up to won’t be making that music any more. The music you are stealing won’t be there anymore ‘cos you have forced your favourite producer to get a job outside of music. There won’t be any good records to buy or play to your mates or get off your heads to and dance music as we know it will be consigned to history.
Wake up you fucking mugs."
With massive, massive thanks to Jon Langford and Ed Real for their input, debate and contribution towards this article.
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Other Features By Olly Perris:
Addiction @ Hidden preview: interview with Sean Tyas
Interview with Ian H & Matt B of Momentum
Interview with Pierre Pienaar aka P.H.A.T.T.
From a young gun to an industry lion: Heat/HF Xmas Payback(2back) Party preview with Spencer Freeland
Party techno, party music, party animal! The lowdown on hard dance’s newest prodigy, Jamie Taylor
The views and opinions expressed in this review are strictly those of the author only for which HarderFaster will not be held responsible or liable.
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Comments:
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From: Shaun on 8th Sep 2004 23:00.47
A rant in the features section! Can I have a go? 
Its quiet simple Olly - make the tunes available on legal sites for £1 or less and people will buy them. Try and charge them £7 for an outdated medium that hardly anyone has the equipment to play it on (i.e. Vinyl) and people will download for free. This problem is the music industry's own making.
From: James Nardi on 8th Sep 2004 23:15.24
Well said Olly, valid points.
From: Shaun on 8th Sep 2004 23:30.18
Also it's not true that ALL people who play CDs get their tunes exclusively from the internet. They may buy vinyl and record this onto a CD to use because they prefer using CDs to vinyl.
From: Shaun on 8th Sep 2004 23:31.59
Mind you, if p2p downloading really does spell the end of hard dance music then I am all for it 
From: Alex Greig on 9th Sep 2004 00:43.35
Completely agree with all of that - particularly Ed Real's comments. However, there is light at the end of the tunnel (as this is where the hard dance scene lacks as far as i'm aware...) you have no LEGAL download sites for hard dance. (i could be very very wrong here, i'm a house dj so wouldnt have a clue on what you can get where on the hard dance front!) for example, i use 2 sites very regularly to get my music - stompy.com & digibag.com
both have large libraries and feature some pretty big artists in my scene (joey youngman, demarkus lewis, inland knights, dj sneak). they sell high quality versions of the tracks for $2. not a lot i know, but then a large % does go to the producer themselves, and downloads are very high. something like this is gonna massively help dance music in that the dj's (who may complain of paying for expensive vinyl, the weight etc) can now legally get the music and play it out, knowing that they have still bought it. that way no one suffers, the labels get some moolah, so do the producers.
if the hard dance scene had something like this, whilst producers and labels may not make as much (i dont know how the costs breakdown for legal downloads and vinyl, so cant compare too well, i presume more can be made from a 12" release) they do still make money and can still survive, and with the right promotion (particularly online!) survive!
From: Justin Sane on 9th Sep 2004 01:22.40
Hard Dance does have several MP3 related legal download sites surrounding it including:
http://www.Trackitdown.net
http://www.imodownload.com
http://www.audiojelly.com (more trance based)
If labels want to keep up with the trends, they need to sign their releases over to one of the sites for sales, its a huge market that people are missing out on! Stagered track releases by A&R managers for tracks mean in general it can be 6 months from hearing a certain track played by *insert name* at *insert event* before its released in the stores for general sale, people don't want to wait that long... The quicker you can get releases from the clubs to the general public the better for the scene, there are so many producers these days that the buzz period over whatever track can end even before its been released.
Another thing that is worth mentioning with regards to MP3 related sales, they help international scene progression which in turn increases international sales of whatever track, people outside of the UK read the charts of big-named DJs and then have to wait many months before the vinyl-released tracks make it into their region of the world - and with vinyl distribution the way it is - cue Alphamagics demise, no wonder that causes huge frustrations and those students/up&coming djs instead turn to P2P as apposed to buying tracks - I by no means am saying this is right, but its what happens and in turn those clubbers in other parts of the world become bored with the scene because they hear the same music in a timeless fashion, if labels want to increase international sales of their tracks they need to accept that they need to get their material out internationally quicker, I think the best solution for this would be MP3 related sites. More fresh material means a fresher scene WORLDWIDE which leads to increased sales WORLDWIDE resulting in a more healthy scene... there are more to record sales than just those sold in the UK 
From: Andy T on 9th Sep 2004 08:36.29
 Well said Olly, I can honestly say I have never downloaded a track off p2p, I've only recently got into cdj'n and all my cd's have been given to me by the artist's. & out of principal I always buy the tunes on release as I prefer vinyl as a medium. I will say though that the legal download sites do need more variety and a bigger choice of labels.
From: InsomniaTrax on 9th Sep 2004 08:42.31
I am glad this topic has yet surfaced again, I posted a very similar thread on a well known producer forum quite a while ago now and got ripped to pieces for doing so, I was told I don't know what I am talking about, mp3 downloads are not affecting sales. Just goes to prove that these people simply do not have a clue what THEY are talking about!
THe worst thing about it was also the fact all these people were producers as well, god help us all....
From: Shaun on 9th Sep 2004 09:34.22
Justin Sane is a voice of sanity in this debate
BTW - Research has shown that those people who do download through p2p networks still do go onto buy the tunes they really like but tend not to buy those that they wouldn't have bought anyway. Mind you the research was conducted in the commerical music world where you can buy a single for £2.99 so is slightly different. What this all comes down to imo is simply market ecconomics. Supply the legal mp3s and there will be a demand. Bury your head in the sand and still only sell 12" and you're fucked. The music industry is utterly dire at dynamism and this is yet another example of this...
From: James Lawson on 9th Sep 2004 09:34.46
A good article Mr Perris.
MP3's are undoubtably here to stay, so it is a question of everybody readjusting the way they think about swapping them for free.
It is also a shame that record labels didn't get a chance to set the price of an MP3 before the sharing got out of hand. £1 per unit is too little. Don't be suprised if the price does go up. Did you know that Itunes was set up as a non profit marketing exercise to sell ipods. The artist does make some money, but the effect of such a large player setting their prices so low has had a knock on effect throughout the industry. I think it will be interesting to see what happens.
On the whole, I like MP3's I like their ease of use, I like the fact that the quality is getting better and I like the ease of distribution accross the world when people are paying for them.
I don't like the piracy. To put it into perspective. If you copied a CD for a friend, maybe 3 or 4 other people might have got a copy of that CD. This resulted in Compliations CDs that were selling somewhere in the region of 200,000 copies to drop their sales to around 80,000, the smaller companies have had 30,000 selling CDs dropping their sales to just 3,000. If an MP3 is shared for free on the web thousands of people can download it. Bye bye profit and producers can say goodbye to any chance of being able to earn from there hard work and then have to stop making music.
Its a difficult debate and one that I think will go on for quite some time yet, but I reckon purchasing MP3's on a properly organised site is the way to go!
REMEMBER that your don't want a virus on your computer or ipod that wipes all your favourite tunes of it, so connect to a trustworthy site for your downloads.
From: Drewski on 9th Sep 2004 10:11.43
The main thing that people have not mentioned about this subject is the fact that playing mp3's could be detrimental to your sound system. Sound is in a sin curve, ie it is rounded at the top and bottom of the frequency ranges. But when you convert a song to mps the upper and lower frequencies are removed from the track and this creates a square curve. Speakers are designed to handle a sin curve, but they are not designed to handle a square curve, because when the speaker reaches the square it has more power then is needed and that is when you will hear a pop from the speaker.
More and more mp3 packages are being created that will create the mps with a sin curve. But are you willing to take the risk on your expensive equipment.
From: rogerbj on 9th Sep 2004 10:19.06
surely the fact that the hard dance scene is shrinking is the major cause of falling record sales
From: Element7 on 9th Sep 2004 10:27.56
While units are dropping in the UK we are selling units to 122 countries around the world - its high time labels got with the program and made their catalogues available for those that do support the scene.
From: Shaun on 9th Sep 2004 10:32.23
From: Ed Real on 9th Sep 2004 10:35.42
hey rog old bean! attendances are falling cos the music ain't as exciting any more... when was the last hardhouse anthem? revolution? that was nearly two years ago... these big tunes that get played on the radio and in crossover scenes attract new people to 'specialist' events and create an influx of new fans to balance out those who stop going clubbing so often. new music and potential new anthems and exciting producers need record label support to get their music heard. if traditional record labels cease to exist then chances are a potential anthem won't get heard and the scene will continue to shrink... without records what would we all dance to? apart from the ringing in our ears from years spent with our heads in the bassbins of course! lol!
From: Craig Paxton on 9th Sep 2004 11:07.07
Great feature Olly and I thoroughly agree with everything that has been said in the article. Shaun, have a word mate, he's talking about people who "share" the music for free as being the ones who are responsible for bringing "the scene" down and if you're all for that happening i'm very surprised as that includes the music you love as well. Trance is not unaffected by this, it's Dance Music as a whole. The labels do need to wake up and embrace the technology that is now available in order for them to maximise their sales, but we as DJ's and punters also need to re-adjust our attitudes in order to keep theses labels alive.
From: Jon-QueST on 9th Sep 2004 11:26.50
I know people that download the music because the love it, its got nothing to do with cheating anybody out of there money. Its about listening to the whole song, not a mixed version from a cd. Why dont the labels produce cd releases of there music. That way cd player dj's can buy their music instead of skamming on us record buying dj's. We sat here spending all our hard earned cash on records. They just come along and download the exact songs we buy and get the same credit and pay that we do. If equipment producers are going to carry on making these high tech cd players or things like final scratch then the labels are gonna have to catch on and realise that there is a market for un-mixed music on cd. Else where will these people turn to get their music?
From: Shaun on 9th Sep 2004 11:31.32
Exactly! Most poeple who go clubbing dont own decks, how are they supposed to buy tunes? The industry has an opportunity here to MASSIVELY increase their market (in fact as Nolan said, they can make it a worldwide marker) and they are being lame in taking this opportunity up...
From: Not Marcus on 9th Sep 2004 11:32.24
I reckon Olly and Ed should declare the interests in their legal site at the top of the article.
From: Element7 on 9th Sep 2004 11:35.59
Olly doesn't have an interest in our project - Olly has an interest in the future dance music.
From: Not Marcus on 9th Sep 2004 11:40.51
He's a talent scout for you guys isn't he? This kind of rant does your project no good, you should be talking about what trackitdown has to offer (which is a good site I might add) rather than alienating all your potential market with rants about p2p.
From: Element7 on 9th Sep 2004 11:44.54
Olly doesn't have an interest in our project - Olly has an interest in the future dance music.
From: Krazy Nut on 9th Sep 2004 11:47.17
As ive said many a times its more that times have changed the days of hunting round record stores for cd's, vinyl and random buying tracks by artist, labels because you was unable to listen to them have long gone, with the internet you can have a good listen before you buy and decide wether or not you will play it in weeks to come ive hundreds of cd's that i randomly brought before the internet came about but got them home and thought this aint much cop im sure im not the only one.
Also i think the main problem with hard dance releases they are mainly aimed at a uk market if you look at tracks like Revolution for instance the reason it sold well was it wasnt just aimed at the uk market with the Dj Energy Remix it crossover to a european market and beyond it then had more mixes from the likes of Alphazone so its bound to sell better than say a track with just uk remixers.
Im all for pay per mp3 download the time tracks take to get released on vinyl is a joke and im sure contributes to slightly poor record sales as a track sometimes sounds dated with the quickness of the scene's progressing.
I very much doubt if free downloading of mp3s stoped tomorrow that vinyl sales would improve that much as many of the people that do download free mp3s wouldnt buy vinyl anyway as its too expensive and too much hassle to keep changing a record, the only sales that may improve would be the cd mix albums such as extreme euphoria.
Thats my 2 cents
From: Not Marcus on 9th Sep 2004 11:49.52
Nolan, Olly has held himself out on this site as a talent scout for you guys.
From: Psychosis on 9th Sep 2004 12:22.56
thats all very well and good, and i agree, with products like cd decks, traktor and final scratch, that digital music is the way forward. carting about untold heavy slabs of vinyl is somewhat primitive for this day and age, and seems rather silly. given the technology available and the fact the cost is coming down, its time for the vinly purists to stop clinging onto those heavy bits bits of soon-to-be antiques.
getting vinyl pressed up is major obstacle for young producers, mainly because of the costs involved and also varying quality of pressings. remove this obstacle and youll see so many quality acts coming through.
however, it is also the time for record labels (indy or otherwsie) to stop clinging onto sales figures generated by the sale of old technology, just because its a safe earner and your punters dont know any better. (also, you cant blame .mp3 pirating for the large amount of shit that is being produced at the moment Eveybody wants to be a DJ? - and a hard house producer by the looks of it! its saturated by all these 'new stars' and quite frankly, theyre shite.)
people wised up to .mp3s a long time ago, which is why there's a problem now, the record compoanies stuck their collective heads in the sand and hoped nothing would happen - oh look it has, lets try and make it illegal and fight it, instead of embracing it.
download sites are a wicked idea, warp records have done it with Bleep.com, which has their entire catalogue on it, all top quality files for a quid a pop. theyre independent and have been around for donkies years (12+), other labels are following suit or even getting their stuff out on bleep.com (ninja tune, lex etc..). however this is only one label dealing with a partilular genre of electronic music, but its a start.
ive tried using trackitdown.net, wippit.com etc...and its great if you want to play pop music or the latest hard house or techno by Ed Real and his pals, but other than the content is minimal, certainley no match for the selection available on p2p.
i know a lot of producers who would quite happily punt out their tunes solely via the net, it makes so much sense, cut out the distributors all together - oh no i here you cry, surely not! why not? 'DogsOnAcid' have done it with DnB, and i see that as being a far more competitive market than the hard house scene.
its a consumer market hes entering into, the consumer is making the best choice for themselves at the moment, its time the producers came up with something to challenge that, and fast, or else they will lose the race.
From: Shaun on 9th Sep 2004 12:32.28
From: Craig Paxton on 9th Sep 2004 12:40.19
If you download without paying for it you are partly responsible for dismantling the scene. It's as simple as that really. Pay or don't play.
From: rogerbj on 9th Sep 2004 12:49.14
Hi Ed - fair point well made but you could leave out the "old" bit you rascal - for the record I only ever download from the really big guys (PVD, Tiesto etc) and if I like their stuff I invariably end up buying their cd's - if I can find them, the big stores are reducing their hard dance sections continuously
From: Psychosis on 9th Sep 2004 12:56.16
my arse is it.
'the scene' has to accept responsiblity for not moving with the times. why the f*ck, in 2004, given all the advances in technology, are you still playing music using bits of plastic with a record player?
you need to be diverse as a business to survive - you guys clearly are not doing that, certainly the last people you need to be having a pop at when your sales are suffering, are your customers.
the fact remains people are getting better elsewhere, because you're not porvding a good enough service. you dont set the record labels up out of the goodness of your hearts do you? if you did you wouldnt give a toss how people acquired your tunes. you do it to make money, and people out there are looking to save money. people are doing well at saving themselves dosh, you need to do better at making yourself dosh.
its a harsh old world out there mate.........
From: Pathfinder on 9th Sep 2004 13:08.36
I have started buying a few tunes on Mp3 sites - my biggest gripe so far is that you sometimes only get 30 secs of a tune to listen to before having to make a purchase decision. This is nowhere near long enough and frequently doesnt include some of the important areas of the tune. I have therefore used p2p to hear the tune, then purchased at a download site. Some of the download sites just do not have enough labels signed to them - if they want the industry to survive, labels should not sign exclusive deals with any one site but ensure that their tunes are available to all.
From: Not Marcus on 9th Sep 2004 13:49.51
Pathfinder - Above the Sky Digital - it streams the whole track...it's wicked and it has loads of quality trance labels...
From: carl nicholson on 9th Sep 2004 13:57.39
Agree with a lot of points made, but at the same time there is a sub frequency that could stop it all! But all that costs time and money and that is one thing that the industry doesnt have at present!!! I agree tracks singular are wrong and unfair but mix cd's, how else can anyone promote themselves without use of the tracks to show talent! Very good article tho, well done olly!
From: Not Marcus on 9th Sep 2004 14:06.31
"Wanna rip off Timberlake? Fine ‘cos the muppet can afford it" ... come on Ed, that's shite, it's the thin end of that very big wedge you're running scared from.
From: Craig Paxton on 9th Sep 2004 14:35.29
The issue here is with people who down-load tracks for free and then share them with their friends. This affects not only vinyl sales, but MP3 sales as well, as none of the people in the afore-mentioned loop will have paid anything for the tracks that they are now playing. The issue is not with the format of the music but in how it is acquired. If you don't pay for a track that you down-load the you shouldn't be playing it. Is that too difficult to understand?????
From: Shaun on 9th Sep 2004 14:51.52
What other people are saying Craig is that if all the tracks were available to legally download then there would be far less of a problem with p2p sharing as people would rather pay a small amount for a higher quality product.
From: Ed Real on 9th Sep 2004 15:27.38
so the record labels and producers need to wake up and smell the coffee right shaun? Markus - the Timberlake comment is one designed to stimulate exactly such a debate as this - if you want a slanging match then lets do it face to face you pedant. bo! :-)
From: Not Marcus on 9th Sep 2004 15:30.53
Who's slanging Herr Rave Baron? It just completely devalues your whole (valid) case when you say something like that.
From: Psychosis on 9th Sep 2004 15:53.42
"The issue is not with the format of the music but in how it is acquired"
spot on.
no-one likes having to use dodgy file sharing software to get sub standard .mp3s, but its the best deal at the moment.
ED REAL wrote- "so the record labels and producers need to wake up and smell the coffee "
yes, yes they do..................
From: Craig Paxton on 9th Sep 2004 15:54.00
And what I am saying Shaun is that the labels can't afford such an out-lay to convert to newer formats when there are pirates out there ripping off their material. And they also have the small matter of contracts which they have to fulfill..
From: Shaun on 9th Sep 2004 16:28.47
"And what I am saying Shaun is that the labels can't afford such an out-lay to convert to newer formats when there are pirates out there ripping off their material. And they also have the small matter of contracts which they have to fulfill.."
The problem is Craig is that your average consumer doesn't care about the logistics they just want the product quickly and cheaply. It's up to the record companies to provide this. If Armada, Mondo, Platipus, Bonzai, Underwater, Southern Fried (and the list goes on) can do it then why can't the others? They are losing sales because they are not forward thinking enough. It'salways been a problem for the music industry dance or rock or whatever.
From: Shaun on 9th Sep 2004 16:29.41
'so the record labels and producers need to wake up and smell the coffee right shaun?'
Yes! but as usual the music industry has left it far too late.
From: Element7 on 9th Sep 2004 17:53.58
Craig - It costs nothing for the labels to have us convert for them. if a contract doesn't deal with the matter of digital rights im certain that most artists when contacted would not be against earning extra revenue on their back catalogue contracts that wont see a repress.
From: Ed Real on 9th Sep 2004 17:57.36
Shaun, both u and craig hit the nail on the head here mate... some of the bigger players are wising up as are a lot of the smaller labels who have most to lose from p2p and most to gain for an increase of mp3 sales. however, most labels we have found are just too wrapped up in their own worlds to realise that a) there is a problem and b) that running a business based on 1000 customers ain't much of a long-term strategy... it's frustrating when we have the ability at www.trackitdown.net to put them in front of 30,000 unique visitors a month!
From: Not Marcus on 9th Sep 2004 18:15.46
Ed, then those labels will be lost to us, sadly. All you as a legal download site can do is keeping doing what you're doing and maybe acquire the rights to those back catalogues if the labels fold.
From: DJ @1 on 9th Sep 2004 19:00.04
As a producer working hard to get a tune signed I would love to see more labels getting involved with legal downloads. I've just had some label interest in a track I'm working on, they tell me it will be at least five months before I'll see it pressed to vinyl, and that's fairly typical !! I could sell it myself online but being unknown I'd be lucky to make more than a few sales. The option then is something like Trackitdown. The question is, how easy is it to get a track onto one of these legal sites for sale? Ed, perhaps you can enlighten me on this.
While more DJs are starting to use cd as a medium I think that they're in the minority. I know many DJs who actually laugh at the idea of owning a pair of cd decks. To many of these guys vinyl is what seperates their (in their eyes) "elite" status as a DJ from the ordinary WHSmith CD shopper. If you want them to play your tune it has to be on vinyl, no question.
Which leads producers back to labels. You want your tune exposed in clubs? Get a label to release it on vinyl.
I completely agree that record labels need to wake up and adapt to the technological changes we see today. Equally, I think that DJs need to wake up to it too, and create a market for labels to sell them tunes on CD. Just how many big name DJs publically endorsing CD as a DJing medium?
And Mr Joe Public has to wake up. We all need to wake up.
I don't understand why people are attacking Olly for his connection to Trackitdown. Every one of us has the power to do something about this, whether you're a producer, DJ, label manager or just a listener. Olly's using his power in a postive way, are you???
From: Shaun on 9th Sep 2004 19:54.22
"Just how many big name DJs publically endorsing CD as a DJing medium? "
Plenty - Sasha, Judge Jules, Morillo, Sanchez, Zabelia, Van Buuren now use majority CDs in their sets
From: Jim Wild on 9th Sep 2004 21:38.25
A good thought provoking feature, alot of good points made. With record shops/labels/distribution companys going bust daily people have to wake up to the fact that vinyl is getting more and more expensive and less worthwile to produce/sell. The future is digital - The ones who embrace it will survive the ones who dont will struggle.
From: Tom Foy on 9th Sep 2004 22:10.55
Record labels need to catch up. Vinyl is ludicrously overpriced and yet there are very few places you can actually buy legal MP3s. Until labels start getting with the times rather than burying their heads in the sand, the problem of illegal downloading will only get worse IMO.
From: slacky on 9th Sep 2004 22:28.02
Its true vinyl is WAY too expensive. But it does cost alot to produce and distrubute. Distributors only make around £2 a record. If they dropped the prices it wouldnt really be worth their time at the current state of affairs.
From: Element7 on 9th Sep 2004 22:59.22
And yet people are happy to spend £ 3.50 on a ring tone - go figure!
From: James Lawson on 10th Sep 2004 01:48.54
Markus - please think of Trackitdown.net as an electronic distribution company! They, like your favourite electronic distribution company, are providing a service that is desperately needed. Whilst this article may benefit trackitdown.net if people choose to start buying music from them, it will also benefit the labels that they are selling the music for, hence the artists that the labels work for, hence the clubs as more music will be produced.
It is also a general article about the subject and will benefit other download sites such as the above and beyond site that you mentioned.
From: James Lawson on 10th Sep 2004 02:15.30
Its all a bit a stalemate really isn't it!
Labels don't want their tracks distributed for free and so won't sell MP3s via the web, but Potencial customers can't get hold of the product (or don't want to pay inflated vinyl prices or they play CDs) so they search on line for the track that somebody else has put on the web as a pirate copy. Which then puts the label off selling MP3's even more.
But the MP3 is up there on the web anyway! Maybe its a case of "if you can't beat em join em!" Sell your music via a download site and then at least your'll have some chance of earning some money.
Hmmm food for thought!
I guess its a big step to take for the labels and artists involved, but the consumers will help and support if they either don't offer a copy of the track to everyone in the world for nothing! So here's to not placing those MP3s in the file sharing folder on your computer. Leave them in your ipod or on your own personal CD player :o)
From: JKW on 10th Sep 2004 09:49.13
Hard dance will die anyway for the same reasons that most people dont listen to the same music that their parents did,as you grow older your priorities will change and there wont be the same disposable income for music or as with some underground music it will be restricted to a small hardcore market (hence the reduction in sales from 2500 to 1500 units)
Record companies have been going bust since time immorial and it has nothing to do with free downloads,more to do with inability to change with the business environment,bad management or putting all their eggs in one basket,this is the sad story of capitalism as a whole.
I think a culture of free downloads is good for music,there are many people around who make music as a passion and not for commercial gain,some of the best music in history has been made by the unemployed or students.Anyone,anywhere can bypass a record company and upload their music directly to the internet and the massive worldwide audience this provides.
In the past if one group such as Oasis was successful for the next two years the record companies swamped us with groups that made similar music and anyone who made different music at that time disappeared into obscurity,for every commercially successful group a hundred disappeared,many of which would have been happy with any kind of recognition they received for their artform,which free downloads can provide.
Also with free downloads you are more likely to experiment with different types of music,if you pay cash you will stick to styles you have always liked.
In Dance music DJs have always been encouraged to play new sounds rather than play the same anthems over and over again like a wedding DJ.So with the disposable nature of the industry it is better to download for free to playout tracks which will only be popular for a week or two.
Also considering much of dance music steals from music in the past without compensating the original composers I dont think we can feel too guilty about downloading music for free.
Free downloads avoid the industry becoming clogged up with the likes of Sting,Elton Johns etc churning out dross for commercial gain.
If I was musically gifted I would be prepared to offer my talents for free,as a hobbey rather than not at all infact when I used to DJ I was never paid for a period of almost 4-5 years I did it because I was passionate about music.
From: James Lawson on 10th Sep 2004 10:40.38
"Record companies have been going bust since time immorial and it has nothing to do with free downloads,more to do with inability to change with the business environment"
Free downloads and the technology that go with it are the change in the business environment! Yes business do have to change this is the point.
The price of an MP3 download allows people to "experiment" more with there musical taste as it becomes financially viable.
Without new producers producing new music (due to not being paid) the "Wedding DJ" idea will happen as there won't be enough of a developed form of the new exciting music you crave.
Talented new and exciting producers/bands won't be able to keep entertaining us if they have to stop doing what they love in order to pay their rent.
It would nice to have the choice of being able to offer your talents for free. Afterall your own intelectual property is yours. You should have the right to chose who can have it (this is complicated with the sampling issue, but the sampling issue does have laws surrounding it and is a seperate issue all together, however by copying for free you are indeed sampling large chunks of music!)
Not all artists that sample others don't pay the original artist for the sample or pay the original artist publishing for the use of their arrangement of notes in a tune. It is not a good enough reason to justify copying and distributing their work for free.
From: Shaun on 10th Sep 2004 12:15.05
"Record companies have been going bust since time immorial and it has nothing to do with free downloads,more to do with inability to change with the business environment,bad management or putting all their eggs in one basket"
Definitely agree with that...
From: Psym@n on 10th Sep 2004 12:36.48
as far as ibiza been quiet this year ...maybe thats due to the fact that its a fookin rip off ...£8 a mini bottle of water , +/-£40 to get into a club ....sort it out and you might attract back the people who really want to go .....greed is a terrible thing people !
From: scudding on 10th Sep 2004 21:36.21
Wake up call
From: Stevie on 10th Sep 2004 22:30.08
This seems to be the only industry where the producers of the product seem hell bent on alienating their potential customers. The majority of people who download tunes, do so not to play them in public, but because it's a cheap way to listen to what they want. If you have a product you want to sell to the public, then find a way to sell it to them, instead of blaming them for your problems.
From: DMX on 12th Sep 2004 06:46.06
As I don't have decks, it's pretty hard for me to buy hard dance releases that I like the sound of. If everything was released on CD it'd be much better and more people would be able to buy the product (not to mention the fact that it would be much more cost-effective IMO).
From: James Lawson on 12th Sep 2004 19:49.22
So MP3 downloads are the way forward if the record labels make them available and the person using the MP3 has paid for their copy. Sounds good to me. It also sounds like the original point of the above article.
From: Monkey Monkeyson on 13th Sep 2004 07:51.26
revolution revolution
From: Busta on 13th Sep 2004 09:58.44
this is true.
www.trackitdown.net surely the way forward !
From: leesh on 14th Sep 2004 23:35.10
all music must be doomed. there is no way that u can stop people copying and sharing tunes. theres always gonna be a way round any incryption. unless they made breach of copyright punishable by death!!
From: littlemissgenki on 16th Sep 2004 01:31.16
wicked shit olly, not only a well researched and written article but got some of the good ol' boys debating a very important topic for the scene
at the risk of sounding like a complete nerd we've gotta similar thing going on at work publishing academic information should it be available easily online for every1 with a puter or only those with the time, money & inclination to subscribe to it?
music, like research, can only benefit from more people having access to it (imo). but then it becomes an ethical issue, as those making it/doing it need ££ to make a living... so are you in it for the money or for the love... I highly recommend that anyone into either for the money go back to go, collect £200 then use that to get a degree in a business discipline, a nice job in a bank, a quiet place in the burbs...
From: Spherical on 16th Sep 2004 01:34.08
CDJ's. There is a HUGE market for them. EVeryone has one. Everyone uses them. Yet what Hard Dance labels sell items of CD? 1? 2? This means people are either playing work given to them by the producer, or, more likely, people are motivated to d/l mp3s illegally to use them. Admittedly with new legal download sites getting out there like www.imodownload.com and www.trackitdown.net - there will be more legal use.
Holding onto vinyl is not the way forward. Its only going to kill the scene. BUT there is nothing like getting a tune on vinyl. CD or mp3 just dont have that elusiveness. 
Good article Oli. Lets hope people wake up and take note....
From: leesh on 16th Sep 2004 22:10.14
littlemissgenki - its not all about making money for the producers. but if they dont make any money they wont have the cash to pay for the production. do u think its possible to produce tunes and release them on vinyl with out money? unless they r avaliable for download only. but then everyone just makes a copy. this is prob gonna spell the end of compilations. ultimately i think it will come down to not having record labels and producers making their tunes downloadable on the net only. they could charge a fee but it wouldnt take long for it to be on p2p.
From: voodoobass on 17th Sep 2004 16:45.17
I just lost my day job at a label management company -- for exactly the reasons that Olly and Ed mention -- dwindling vinyl sales means there's not enough cash coming in to support people who actually want to make a living (not get rich!) from music. However, I think that so far with the paid MP3 thing, the sums of money the end user is charged just aren't enough either -- if sites are offering tracks for £1 or £2 a download, by the time the website takes its cut, that only leaves 50p per unit or maybe even less that goes to the producer. And will producers still get an advance once a tune is signed, in order to be able to pay the rent/buy new gear? Will they have the benefits of marketing and all promotion that a record label/artist management firm can provide them?
It looks to me like the current state of paid downloads still isn't really enough to ensure a future for the dance scene.
I'd be really interested to see if the downloading phenomenon has had such an effect on other genres - considering the majority of people that buy dance buy it specifically to mix/play out, whereas other genres are more about sticking an album on and letting it play for an hour, in the home.
From: alex_k on 17th Sep 2004 17:51.17
how easy/expensive is it to make a track?
From: stepfilterwhore on 19th Sep 2004 02:43.05
Ed Real shoots his own arguement in the foot by saying "it's ok to dl track off majors" - wake up ed, if it's bad to dl tracks of indie labels it's bad to dl off majors too, as the more money majors loose means that they are less willing to experiment with new artists/styles of music which means that (1) there will be more low-risk shit like timberlake and (2) that less money filters down from majors to indie labels. gomez once said that without the spice girls success they wouldn't have got a deal, so to say it's ok to rip of pop but not non-pop is just the sort of fuckwit soundbyte that doesn't do the cause that ed is allegedly supporting any favours whatsoever.
From: stepfilterwhore on 19th Sep 2004 02:47.21
I might also add that I am not in any way for dl'ing at the expense when good artists/labels are going to loose out, but I do think that a lot of labels are doing themselves no favours by releasing poor records - look at hooj, it's hardly a coincidence that they went bust after a string of releases that weren't a shadow of their best.
From: alex aymonier on 22nd Sep 2004 17:07.07
Got this from an article i got sent through from an online IT mag.
Share Your Files and Go Directly to Jail?
Music, movies and similar artistic products have long been protected by the federal copyright laws. Under these laws, if you use or distribute such materials without permission of the copyright owner, you can be sued - as many file sharers discovered when they found themselves named by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) in mass lawsuits, most of which resulted in settlements for several thousand dollars each.
Now our legislators want to take it further and criminalize such activities rather than leaving them (solely) under the jurisdiction of the civil system. The House Judiciary Committee recently approved a law that will make unauthorized sharing of music, movie and software files not just a tort, but a crime. That means you can go to jail for it.
Now, distributing pirated files commercially has been prosecutable for a long time, but those who gave away their files for free have generally fallen under the civil system. If the bills coming up before Congress pass, not only the file sharers but the companies - such as Kazaa - that distribute peer-to-peer file sharing software may find themselves facing lose of liberty as well as monetary penalties. These laws are, of course, heavily supported by many big players in the music, movie and software industries and, just as predictably, are opposed by advocates of the "information wants to be free" philosophy and would-be Robin Hoods who see file sharing as a modern day form of stealing from the rich to give to the poor.
Many of us, however, see danger at both ends of the spectrum. Intellectual property rights are important in an era when millions of people make a living through the production of creative non-tangible material such as songs, books, screenplays and computer programs. Insisting that anyone should have access to their material without paying for it makes no more sense than insisting that car manufacturers be forced to give away the vehicles they make to those who can't afford them or just don't want to pay.
On the other hand, a song is not the same as a car or other physical property. When you copy it, you don't deprive the original owner of its use (which has traditionally been a required legal element of the offense of theft). Assuming you aren't repackaging and selling the copied song for profit, there is no demonstrable provable loss to the original owner. Much as the industry might proclaim otherwise, there is no evidence that all, or even some, of the people who download "illegal" songs would have bought the music if the downloads weren't available.
And there are real problems that arise from criminalizing everything that we believe is morally or ethically wrong. Taking this trend to its natural conclusion would result in putting people in jail for telling lies or hanging them for committing adultery. Laws are necessary to prevent chaos and preserve an orderly society. But an overabundance of criminal laws creates an oppressive society in which the government controls our every move. The civil court system was designed to deal with those disputes between entities and individuals (for example, between the RIAA and file sharers) in which one party believes itself to have been "wronged" by the actions of another. It's served that purpose well in the past.
The Piracy Deterrence and Education Act of 2004 is one of the most prominent of several Internet-related bills that have been voted on in Congressional committees over the past few weeks. Other measures passed by the same committee would target the placement of spyware on users' computers without their knowledge. And of course, the CAN SPAM act led the way.
Let us know what you think about the move to criminalize everything from sharing a file to sending unwanted advertising. Are there differences between placing spyware, sending spam and sharing files? Is there a difference between putting your music "out there" for everyone on a P2P network and making a single copy for a friend? Should any, all or none of these be criminalized?
Might be comming soon in America, and no doubt we will follow suit very soon.
From: Dan_Durnin on 23rd Sep 2004 08:09.39
Here's the kicker: You Cannot Stop People From Downloading.
It's all very well to shout and scream that it's destroying the scene, and while that in particular is debatable, it's undeniable that MP3 has had an adverse effect on revenue from vinyl sales. What the dance music industry is doing atm, is what the pop industry was doing for years before it ran out of breath. Telling people it's bad is not going to make a fucking bit of difference, I'm sorry. You can hammer it home as often and as ferociously as you like, but the essential problem is people refusing to accept that it's wrong. There is a generation of people growing up not actually realising Intellectual Property is a legal right, and they ain't listening to you.
Many people spat on the RIAA for suing youngsters and teenagers for downloading music, saying they were corporate scumbags. The real truth, however, is that the pop industry whom they represent, pushed itself into a corner by stubbornly preaching about how wrong MP3 downloading was, and not actually doing anything to combat it. Without proactive solutions, rhetoric is all but useless.
This is where it gets interesting: people come up with paid-for, legal sales sites. Ok, ITunes was a massive success, but they are the only one you hear about. Why? Because you can't compete with something that's free. How low can you cut your price? Not low enough, is the simple fact.
And this brings us back to those evil RIAA guys in the states. Why were they suing young children? Surely that's going too far? The reality, is that the only solution to this problem, the only course of action that can enable the survival of the music industry, is to re-establish the legal basis of ownership and theft. Not by rhetoric, not by argument, but by force. Sheer, fuck you, go to jail, force.
Food for thought.
From: alex_k on 28th Sep 2004 01:02.20
mass disobedience of any law makes it very difficult to enforce.
From: garytheprophet on 11th May 2008 03:18.51
here's one for you folks.
I agree with mp3 being the way forward for the future and also i can see everyones point on this debate but one of the greatest obstacles that i have seen is that the download stores are usually making more money then the artists and labels put together which is surely making a massive impact in the industry why do the online stores take upto 50% of sales when all they are is a gateway.. its the labels and artists that provide the music which they have to share the sales, pay for equipment, dezines, promotion and licensing for the music so surely this is making it harder for labels and artists to make money..........
one way forward is for the stores to lower the percentage they take that would help a great deal..
what do you think??? i hope it is not based on greed
we should all be working together to make this work,
so that the scene doesnt die
From: garytheprophet on 11th May 2008 03:21.37
here's one for you folks.
I agree with mp3 being the way forward for the future and also i can see everyones point on this debate but one of the greatest obstacles that i have seen is that the download stores are usually making more money then the artists and labels put together which is surely making a massive impact in the industry why do the online stores take upto 50% of sales when all they are is a gateway.. its the labels and artists that provide the music which they have to share the sales, pay for equipment, dezines, promotion and licensing for the music so surely this is making it harder for labels and artists to make money..........
one way forward is for the stores to lower the percentage they take that would help a great deal..
what do you think??? i hope it is not based on greed
we should all be working together to make this work,
so that the scene doesnt die
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